NOTE: This exchange occurred on Tuesday, April 4, 2023. Though old, we believe it is still article-worthy because of the continuing relevance of the subject matter about which the two were fighting, January 6, and because the spat over who was lecturing whom is quite entertaining. Though not timely, the fight itself is still relevant.

During the White House Press Briefing on April 4, 2023, New York Times reporter Michael Shear got into a heated back-and-forth clash with White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre over the White House’s comments on January 6, a fight that devolved into the two getting snippy with one another and rudely interrupting each other.

It began with Shear asking a lengthy question, saying, “The President has spoken repeatedly about January 6th. He gave at least two major speeches that I can think of, and he’s talked at length — I’m sorry — talked at length in — in various forums. There were more than 500 active legal cases going on during the time that he made those speeches, all of which potentially could have been affected — would have been affected by whatever his opinions were on the circumstances surrounding those cases.”

He continued, “Why — what is different between his being willing to talk about — not the specifics of individual cases, but to talk about the issues presented by — by what happened on January 6th and questions about — just to — just to put a fine point on it — I’m, sort of, going on Peter’s point — it’s like — and, frankly, a lot of the questions here — there’s an understanding about not wanting to comment specifically about this case, perhaps. But there are issues that are presented — people have been talking about it for weeks now — when a former President — any former President would be indicted for the first time and arrested for the first time. What is the White House’s reticence? And what’s the difference between that and this?”

KJP indicated her annoyance when he stopped talking, asking, “Done?” Shear said, “I’m done,” and then KJP laughed at her own snippy comment. She then said, “But with all seriousness, January 6th was a devastating day. Like, you guys — I think — if you guys weren’t there, some of your colleagues were on Capitol Hill. We had — we had law enforcement, police officers who were attacked, who died. And what we saw on that day was an attack on our democracy. It was a devastating, devastating day in our history. And it was — it was a moment for this President to have spoken to. Right?”

Continuing, she said, “You had millions and millions of Americans who watched what was happening on Capitol Hill, something that many of us — I’d never seen it and many of us had never ever seen before. You know? And it was something that needed to be spoken to, when you see something like that — our democracy, literally our democracy, under attack. And so the President will never shy away when it comes to our democracy, when it comes to the fabric of who we are as a country and what makes this country who it — what it is. And so it — it was a different, different moment and a different time. What we’re —”

That’s when the interruption started. Shear, cutting her off, jumped in and said, “But what — I’m sorry.” They then awkwardly interrupted eadch other before KJP pressed on, saying, “When it comes to these types of cases — these criminal, like, specific cases — we’re just not going to comment. I know there’s a broad- — I get — I get you. I know there’s a broader question of what this means — the precedent and — and what the President is going to decide or make decisions that he might make, like hypothetical questions. I’m just not going to comment from here on that.”

That’s when a seemingly interminable round of back and forth interruptions becan with KJP repeatedly saying, “I hear you”  and “people died” as Shear asked about the “the 500 cases involving Americans . . . whose freedom was at risk.” Eventually, Shear, frustrated, snapped, “Karine, I don’t need a lecture —!” She then repeatedly snapped, “But you’re lecturing me.”

Eventually, the two stopped interrupting each other and Shear snaped, “I’m asking questions. And what I’m saying is, there are millions of people out there watching today. You called January 6th “historic.” It was absolutely historic, and none of us had ever seen that before. Nobody has seen this before either. There are millions and millions of Americans watching, the first time in 250 years, a former President be hauled into court and — and processed for arrest. That means something. That has some effect, potentially, I suspect, on — on American democracy and on how the rest of the world — you know, the President has talked a lot about how the rest of the world sees the United States in the wake of January 6th. Totally valid. Why isn’t that — why isn’t there a similar kind of assessment about how the world is watching us now? Good or bad. I’m not making a judgement —”

The interruptions then briefly resumed and led to KJP claiming, “January 6th is just — was a different moment. It just was . . . It was something that — that was incredibly devastating. People died on that day and were harmed. And it was just — it was just something that we saw visually that we reacted to, and many people were scared in that moment.”

She continued, “And as the President was taking office as the next President of the United States — a President that ran on bringing the country together, on protecting our democracy — it was something that it was important to speak to at that — at that moment. And also, you know, we know that Americans still very much care about this. When it comes to a criminal investigation like this that is ongoing, we are just not going to comment. We’re not going to interfere. We’re not going to politically interfere from here. And we’ve been consistent. We’ve been very consistent. I know you’re bringing up January 6th. I just laid out why we believe that was very different. But we’re just going to be consistent on not commenting on any criminal ongoing investigation.”

Watch their angry back and forth here: